Lufthansa A380 pilots were frustrated by a 17 minute wait for takeoff at SFO and told the departure controller they'd file a report. Were they right to complain?
Yes indeed. We Germans prefer not to be messed around with.
Ha- I landed at SFO in the night this happened and just saw that a380 sitting there waiting to depart. Funny.
If he's No.1 for takeoff and had to wait 17 mins, that sure seems like a pretty ineffecient use of runway. Busy single runway airports like LGW or BOM always intersperse takeoff and landing because that's how you maximize runway capacity.
Yep. Looks like 17 minutes as #1 for takeoff on 28R as per FlightRadar24. That's quite literally setting money on fire. I'd side with the pilots on this. That's extremely inefficient use of the runway.
Makes me wonder how often LH A380 pilots fly these days… it sounds to me like this pilot hasn’t been fully beaten down by the US ATC system recently
Without the benefit of the full story, I'd say he was delusional. What was the weather? What runways were in use? SFO is a crowded field and depending upon the weather not all runways are available. Were there wake turbulence issues that required further spacing of aircraft in line to land after he took off? Lots of unknowns here.
The Super should have priority. You’re setting €500 euro notes on fire every minute at that point. They might as well delayed starting their engines after pushback. I’m guessing they burned several thousand liters of gas well Ofcourse California is oblivious to economics.
Oh, I see your thinly-veiled right-wing trope (blue-state-bad) from a mile away. Has little to do with the state of California or its ‘policies’ (other than that this took place at SFO). The state is the WORLD’s fourth largest economy… so, it is you who are “oblivious”, D3King.
Yet you fail to note that if a plane, any size plane, from any country, tries to land one minute after curfew in FRA, it is waved off. Think of all fuel that is wasted when they have to divert. Generally speaking, pilots are sharp dudes. This one, not so much.
As much as I would love to ride on an A380 at some point just for the experience, the type is inherently fuel inefficient per se. And it's worth noting that the ATC "super" designation refers to how much wake turbulence the A380 creates on takeoff. Had the LH plane been given earlier takeoff clearance, how many other aircraft would have been delayed taking off waiting for its wake to clear? It isn't only about landing aircraft. I would also point out that this is entirely controlled by Federal authorities, not state and local authorities. SFO is an old airport that sits between the Bayshore Freeway and the San Francisco Bay such that its parallel runways have been deemed too close together for fully simultaneous operations--and there is nowhere to expand. A 17 minute takeoff delay isn't unusual there--or at most busy airports around the world these days.
He was afraid he’d miss the night curfew by 17 seconds in Germany and then divert to an airport that has 24 hour operations….thats all.
To be honest - typical German arrogance
What is this, the Shinkansen? Psh, I’m an operational reliability hawk, but, fellas, a mere 17 minutes delay at a US airport, these days, is probably considered on-time by lame DOT standards.
Absolutely ridiculous. US carriers are constantly delayed in FRA and MUC to give the hometown carrier an advantage. US Widebodies are left daily to wait for single aisle LH jets clear outbound and inbound gates before getting push clearance. 17min on SFO. It takes that long just to taxi from their G gate sometimes!
Probably a DEI air traffic controller hired by mayor Pete...
Germany, the country/culture that pushes discipline and punctuality beyond absurdity. Funny, unless this turns against you.
As someone who has unfortunately ridden (or attempted to ride) a bunch of Deutsche Bahn trains over the last few years, I don't really understand how you can possibly say that Germans "want punctuality and efficiency".
I take it these pilots have never been to ORD. They might not have a long time to wait at one of the runways, but it will sure take them a long time to get there. Same could be said for AMS.
17 minutes wait for take off at a USA or any airport in world is normal, therefore the complaint of Lufthansa pilots is over reaction. They were lucky to wait only 17 minutes,
Germans wants to be on time. That’s why.
I noticed a rather unique gift to buy at FRA World shop. It was a wrist sized sun dial so can track your train's arrival the FRA Deutsche Bahn station.
An A380 needs more spacing than normal, right? It’s a long time to be idling on the jetway, but depending on what was landing, it surely wouldn’t be as simple as saying “yeah, let’s have these other planes circle for a while so we can get you out.”
Don't become click bait. You asking if two a380 captains are "delusional" is beneath you (and most of your readership).
Only bothering to make this comment cause I generally like your work.
Rob - Agree . "delusional" is a clinical word ; nothing "delusional" about an honest discussion .
Lufthansa pilot: “Lufthansa 459 super, looks like there’s two more arrivals and then maybe a hole we can get you out on.”
Tower controller: “Roger, thank you.”
Shouldn't "Lufthansa pilot" and "Tower controller" be flip-flopped in the above? It reads as if the LH pilot was working the tower.
Willy -She said last night , LH pilot ought to work the tower . ( That's what She said : "work the tower ... work the tower .)
The Flying public: "why can't U.S ATC be more like Europe".
Me: "cool, so we can go on strike then?"
Flying public: "nOt lIkE THaT!"
(Not directed at Ben, just the general sentiment I've seen)
Anyways, surface level sentiments like "big plane burn more fuel go first", or "they should use the runway for landings AND departures" really mean nothing, especially without greater understanding of the operation.
For one, if LH is that gung-ho about leaving, perhaps they could've offered to depart the 1's, where departure gaps are simpler to come by (but IIRC LH A380 won't want to depart the 1s/is prohibited by company). Or perhaps an additional factor was at play in the background- for instance I bet none here knew SFO and OAK share departure corridors after 10 P.M for purposes of noise abatement. Maybe there was a gap at some point, but then SFO had to wait for a release from departure because of an OAK departure. Sometimes a gap will exist but the departure release is given just a hair too late and the gap has closed.
You can rarely derive the bigger picture in ATC from short videos like this.
The Flying public: "why can't U.S ATC be more like no humans".
JoeAmateur: I'm a greedy dinosaur who wants more pay and less work even technologically I'm already obsolete. I would have gone on strike if I could. But I don't put my paycheck in where my mouth is.
(Not directed at Ben, just the general sentiment I've seen)
Eskimo has previously claimed the flying public is an echo chamber (since in actuality they by-and-large share my sentiments about AI, not his) and is now here claiming they want A.I to replace ATC. Must be nice to have it both ways!
Really it's moot though, since we've established (by lack of evidence to the contrary) that the ability of A.I to replace ATC does not currently exist. The assertion otherwise is just that of a rather desperate troll.
He can't put up, but won't shut up.
(Queue more ad hominem copypasta junk).