The pilots of a Lufthansa Airbus A380 became frustrated after having to wait 17 minutes for takeoff at an airport in the United States, and they made sure the controllers knew how unacceptable this was. Are they making a valid point, or are they just delusional? You tell me…
Lufthansa pilots frustrated over takeoff delay
YouTube channel You can see ATC has the ATC audio and a visualization of an interaction that happened on October 9, 2026. It involves Lufthansa flight LH459, scheduled to operate from San Francisco (SFO) to Munich (MUC) using an Airbus A380 with the registration code D-AIMM.
The “conflict” here involves how the Lufthansa A380 taxied out to its departure runway. Long story short, planes were landing at the same time, and taking off requires a gap between arrivals. As a result, it took quite some time for the Lufthansa plane to get takeoff clearance.
While queuing for takeoff, the interaction went as follows:
Lufthansa pilot: “Lufthansa 459, how much more possible delay do we have to expect?”
Tower controller: “It’s pretty booked on final, standby.”
Tower controller: “Lufthansa 459 super, looks like there’s two more arrivals and then maybe a hole we can get you out on.”
Lufthansa pilot: “Roger, thank you.”
The plane was then eventually cleared for takeoff, and handed over to departures. However, the Lufthansa pilots were still frustrated by what happened, so they posed a question to the departure controller:
Lufthansa pilot: “Is there any coordination during approach and tower for takeoff? We had a 17 minute wait and no gap for takeoff.”
Departure controller: “Lufthansa 459 super, you said you had a 15 minute wait… you said no gap? Was it a 15 minute wait at the runway?”
Lufthansa pilot: “17 minutes. And I cannot understand that there is no coordination between approach to coordinate a gap for the takeoff.”
Departure controller: “Lufthansa 459 super, between the tower and approach controllers, if they need to coordinate a gap, you might wanna ask the tower next time.”
Lufthansa pilot: “I hope you can forward it to your colleagues. But we still write a report and ask these questions. It costs tons of fuel, 17 minutes for a super on the holding point.”
Departure controller: “Contact Oakland center 125.85.”
Lufthansa pilot: “Thank you very much, this has to be clarified for future takeoffs. Thank you very much. Bye-bye.”
The Lufthansa pilots have a point, but…
I understand how an extended wait at the runway can be frustrating, and how it burns a good amount of fuel, especially for the world’s largest passenger plane. However, I feel like they’re being a little overly critical here:
- Consistently building in sufficient landing gaps isn’t necessarily that easy, or for that matter, efficient
- Yes, planes burn fuel waiting at the hold short point, but planes also burn fuel if you give them longer routings, in order to create additional spacing
- When you’re operating at an airport during a busy period, you shouldn’t be surprised by an extended wait, and waiting a total of 17 minutes doesn’t exactly sound that unusual
- I feel like they’re basically criticizing an aspect of how ATC is often run in the United States, while not factoring in what a mess it can be (“oh, you missed your departure slot out of Greece by two minutes, now you can take off in two hours!”)
I mean, I do get a chuckle out of culture of this. You have the very serious Germans who want punctuality and efficiency, and are telling the departure controller she should look into this. Not surprisingly, she is completely disinterested… and I don’t really blame her, in this case!
Bottom line
Lufthansa Airbus A380 pilots were frustrated when they had to wait 17 minutes for takeoff clearance, while holding short of the runway at SFO. They made sure to express that displeasure to the departure controller, and also said they’d file a report over the incident, thinking this wait is unacceptable.
I get the frustration, though I’m not sure there’s a perfect solution to this, and Europe doesn’t exactly have the most seamless system for avoiding delays either.
What do you make of this Lufthansa pilot complaint?
They ordered the plane. Deal with it.
It's who-knows-how-long taxi plus 17 minutes wasted on the runway. The pilot right, that is crazy.
But, American airports are known for terrible taxis and queues and everything.
We are not talking about a 17 min queuing in a long line of departures (standard scenario). We are talking about a 17min standstill an the hold short line of the runway in first position to depart (even unusual for the US).
I've personally observed 15+ minute delays #1 at the runway as far back as 2019. This isn't new (and I'm confident it wasn't new then, either). It's not every hour or even necessarily every day, but it's long been common enough that a sudden barrage of public concern is misinformed at best, manufactured at worst.
They also have to let planes take off on Rwy 1 L/R. So while they may have been first in line on 28 other planes could also be squeezing in for take off perpendicular.
good heavens.
Just wait til those engines are at takeoff thrust. THEN we are talking about burning tons of fuel.
Maybe you, mr. pilot, should let LH headquarters figure out how to pay the fuel bill for those beasts and your "job" is to relish in the status of flying them while they remain in the fleet.
I used to travel on the LHR-FRA route regularly back in the early 2000s. Long taxis at FRA were common and one time I recall we taxied for 45 minutes so a 17 minute delay doesn't sound too bad!
bad day at the officd
Ed - safety first .
The Flying public: "why can't U.S ATC be more like Europe".
Me: "cool, so we can go on strike then?"
Flying public: "nOt lIkE THaT!"
(Not directed at Ben, just the general sentiment I've seen)
Anyways, surface level sentiments like "big plane burn more fuel go first", or "they should use the runway for landings AND departures" really mean nothing, especially without greater understanding of the operation.
For one, if LH is that...
The Flying public: "why can't U.S ATC be more like Europe".
Me: "cool, so we can go on strike then?"
Flying public: "nOt lIkE THaT!"
(Not directed at Ben, just the general sentiment I've seen)
Anyways, surface level sentiments like "big plane burn more fuel go first", or "they should use the runway for landings AND departures" really mean nothing, especially without greater understanding of the operation.
For one, if LH is that gung-ho about leaving, perhaps they could've offered to depart the 1's, where departure gaps are simpler to come by (but IIRC LH A380 won't want to depart the 1s/is prohibited by company). Or perhaps an additional factor was at play in the background- for instance I bet none here knew SFO and OAK share departure corridors after 10 P.M for purposes of noise abatement. Maybe there was a gap at some point, but then SFO had to wait for a release from departure because of an OAK departure. Sometimes a gap will exist but the departure release is given just a hair too late and the gap has closed.
You can rarely derive the bigger picture in ATC from short videos like this.
The Flying public: "why can't U.S ATC be more like no humans".
JoeAmateur: I'm a greedy dinosaur who wants more pay and less work even technologically I'm already obsolete. I would have gone on strike if I could. But I don't put my paycheck in where my mouth is.
(Not directed at Ben, just the general sentiment I've seen)
Eskimo has previously claimed the flying public is an echo chamber (since in actuality they by-and-large share my sentiments about AI, not his) and is now here claiming they want A.I to replace ATC. Must be nice to have it both ways!
Really it's moot though, since we've established (by lack of evidence to the contrary) that the ability of A.I to replace ATC does not currently exist. The assertion otherwise is just that of...
Eskimo has previously claimed the flying public is an echo chamber (since in actuality they by-and-large share my sentiments about AI, not his) and is now here claiming they want A.I to replace ATC. Must be nice to have it both ways!
Really it's moot though, since we've established (by lack of evidence to the contrary) that the ability of A.I to replace ATC does not currently exist. The assertion otherwise is just that of a rather desperate troll.
He can't put up, but won't shut up.
(Queue more ad hominem copypasta junk).
Lufthansa pilot: “Lufthansa 459 super, looks like there’s two more arrivals and then maybe a hole we can get you out on.”
Tower controller: “Roger, thank you.”
Shouldn't "Lufthansa pilot" and "Tower controller" be flip-flopped in the above? It reads as if the LH pilot was working the tower.
Willy -She said last night , LH pilot ought to work the tower . ( That's what She said : "work the tower ... work the tower .)
Don't become click bait. You asking if two a380 captains are "delusional" is beneath you (and most of your readership).
Only bothering to make this comment cause I generally like your work.
Rob - Agree . "delusional" is a clinical word ; nothing "delusional" about an honest discussion .
An A380 needs more spacing than normal, right? It’s a long time to be idling on the jetway, but depending on what was landing, it surely wouldn’t be as simple as saying “yeah, let’s have these other planes circle for a while so we can get you out.”
Only 17 minutes? First time to SFO?
Germans wants to be on time. That’s why.
Sure… *Deutsche Bahn sweating nervously*
I noticed a rather unique gift to buy at FRA World shop. It was a wrist sized sun dial so can track your train's arrival the FRA Deutsche Bahn station.
17 minutes wait for take off at a USA or any airport in world is normal, therefore the complaint of Lufthansa pilots is over reaction. They were lucky to wait only 17 minutes,
I take it these pilots have never been to ORD. They might not have a long time to wait at one of the runways, but it will sure take them a long time to get there. Same could be said for AMS.
As someone who has unfortunately ridden (or attempted to ride) a bunch of Deutsche Bahn trains over the last few years, I don't really understand how you can possibly say that Germans "want punctuality and efficiency".
Want doesn't equal to have.
Americans want free speech.
Germany, the country/culture that pushes discipline and punctuality beyond absurdity. Funny, unless this turns against you.
Probably a DEI air traffic controller hired by mayor Pete...
Please tell us you forgot the “/s”
Absolutely ridiculous. US carriers are constantly delayed in FRA and MUC to give the hometown carrier an advantage. US Widebodies are left daily to wait for single aisle LH jets clear outbound and inbound gates before getting push clearance. 17min on SFO. It takes that long just to taxi from their G gate sometimes!
What is this, the Shinkansen? Psh, I’m an operational reliability hawk, but, fellas, a mere 17 minutes delay at a US airport, these days, is probably considered on-time by lame DOT standards.
He was afraid he’d miss the night curfew by 17 seconds in Germany and then divert to an airport that has 24 hour operations….thats all.
To be honest - typical German arrogance
*cough* EU261 *cough*
The Super should have priority. You’re setting €500 euro notes on fire every minute at that point. They might as well delayed starting their engines after pushback. I’m guessing they burned several thousand liters of gas well Ofcourse California is oblivious to economics.
Oh, I see your thinly-veiled right-wing trope (blue-state-bad) from a mile away. Has little to do with the state of California or its ‘policies’ (other than that this took place at SFO). The state is the WORLD’s fourth largest economy… so, it is you who are “oblivious”, D3King.
Yet you fail to note that if a plane, any size plane, from any country, tries to land one minute after curfew in FRA, it is waved off. Think of all fuel that is wasted when they have to divert. Generally speaking, pilots are sharp dudes. This one, not so much.
As much as I would love to ride on an A380 at some point just for the experience, the type is inherently fuel inefficient per se. And it's worth noting that the ATC "super" designation refers to how much wake turbulence the A380 creates on takeoff. Had the LH plane been given earlier takeoff clearance, how many other aircraft would have been delayed taking off waiting for its wake to clear? It isn't only about...
As much as I would love to ride on an A380 at some point just for the experience, the type is inherently fuel inefficient per se. And it's worth noting that the ATC "super" designation refers to how much wake turbulence the A380 creates on takeoff. Had the LH plane been given earlier takeoff clearance, how many other aircraft would have been delayed taking off waiting for its wake to clear? It isn't only about landing aircraft. I would also point out that this is entirely controlled by Federal authorities, not state and local authorities. SFO is an old airport that sits between the Bayshore Freeway and the San Francisco Bay such that its parallel runways have been deemed too close together for fully simultaneous operations--and there is nowhere to expand. A 17 minute takeoff delay isn't unusual there--or at most busy airports around the world these days.
Without the benefit of the full story, I'd say he was delusional. What was the weather? What runways were in use? SFO is a crowded field and depending upon the weather not all runways are available. Were there wake turbulence issues that required further spacing of aircraft in line to land after he took off? Lots of unknowns here.
"Take him to the infirmary… He's delusional…"
yup. all kinds of reasons to wait at sfo (even on the best of days).
Makes me wonder how often LH A380 pilots fly these days… it sounds to me like this pilot hasn’t been fully beaten down by the US ATC system recently
If he's No.1 for takeoff and had to wait 17 mins, that sure seems like a pretty ineffecient use of runway. Busy single runway airports like LGW or BOM always intersperse takeoff and landing because that's how you maximize runway capacity.
Yep. Looks like 17 minutes as #1 for takeoff on 28R as per FlightRadar24. That's quite literally setting money on fire. I'd side with the pilots on this. That's extremely inefficient use of the runway.
Ha- I landed at SFO in the night this happened and just saw that a380 sitting there waiting to depart. Funny.
Yes indeed. We Germans prefer not to be messed around with.
natürlich